Login
User Name:

Password:



Register
Forgot your password?
Vote for Us!
tintin++ ogg sound player script for linux
Author: Robert Smith
Submitted by: Vladaar
6Dragons ogg Soundpack
Author: Vladaar
Submitted by: Vladaar
6Dragons 4.4
Author: Vladaar
Submitted by: Vladaar
LoP 1.46
Author: Remcon
Submitted by: Remcon
LOP 1.45
Author: Remcon
Submitted by: Remcon
Users Online
CommonCrawl, Yandex, DotBot

Members: 0
Guests: 10
Stats
Files
Topics
Posts
Members
Newest Member
481
3,734
19,366
618
Micheal64X
Today's Birthdays
There are no member birthdays today.
Related Links
» SmaugMuds.org » General » General Discussions » Bug fix listing suggestion
Forum Rules | Mark all | Recent Posts

Bug fix listing suggestion
< Newer Topic :: Older Topic >

Pages:<< prev 1, 2, 3 next >>
Post is unread #21 Dec 17, 2007, 8:09 pm   Last edited Dec 17, 2007, 8:11 pm by Metsuro
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Metsuro
Apprentice
GroupMembers
Posts68
JoinedSep 2, 2006

Actually you were implying you'd rather people waste their time in do the work, not samson. So you were asking people to do more work.

Edit: And its kinda funny that my name is actually David too...
       
Post is unread #22 Dec 17, 2007, 8:12 pm   Last edited Dec 17, 2007, 8:14 pm by Kayle
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Kayle
Off the Edge of the Map
GroupAdministrators
Posts1,195
JoinedMar 21, 2006

I wasn't implying anything. Stop trying to play like David, you're really not that good at it. Although you are pretty good at not reading what's said like he is.

Not once in my post did I say anything about how anyone should do what I did. I merely stated that due to personal experience, I've found that I learned from mistakes, and wrote better code while moving my code from the old base to the other.

[Edit]: Whether your name is David or not, doesn't really matter to me, the fact that you're trying to use David Haley's debate tactics of putting words in other peoples mouths and twisting their words to your argument, and failing at it. makes me laugh though.
       
Post is unread #23 Dec 17, 2007, 8:17 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Metsuro
Apprentice
GroupMembers
Posts68
JoinedSep 2, 2006

I'm not actually trying to use his tactics... But why would you give your own personal experience if not to suggest others do the same, what point does it have to the conversation then?
       
Post is unread #24 Dec 17, 2007, 8:22 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

David Haley
Sorcerer
GroupMembers
Posts903
JoinedJan 29, 2007

I find it rather unfortunate that you have chosen such a petty issue to start insulting me over, Kayle. That is your call, I suppose, although I would prefer to fight over something at least slightly glorious. :wink: I certainly do not care enough about this to argue with you, especially not when you choose to get snippy about humor despite it being explicitly tagged with emoticons. (What do we need, emoticons about emoticons so that you can see which emoticons indicate humor?)

My point has been made very simply. This is a trivial change. Several people have spoken in favor of it. I don't see why there is opposition to it. But I also don't care enough to fight for it. Clearly Samson has his reasons (be they as they are) for being against it, and Kayle... well, basically, Samson has his reasons and that's what matters in the end of the day.
       
Post is unread #25 Dec 17, 2007, 8:24 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Samson
Black Hand
GroupAdministrators
Posts3,643
JoinedJan 1, 2002

Metsuro said:

Is it the best, or easiest you mean? I dont think having to sift through pages of fixes because I use 1.6 is the best way to go through things, it might be the easiest thing for you though.


You're going to find quickly that taking a hostile or semi-hostile tone around here is going to get you exactly nowhere.

Whether fixes get tagged with anything that says what version they were first included in or not is not going to change the fact that someone using 1.6 is going to have to go and include all of those fixes anyway. You're still going to have to do the drudge work because nobody else here will do it for you.
       
Post is unread #26 Dec 17, 2007, 8:27 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Metsuro
Apprentice
GroupMembers
Posts68
JoinedSep 2, 2006

I wasn't trying to be hostile, or semi-hostile. I was just pointing out the fact that you said it was the best idea, and I was merely asking if it was the best, or easiest idea for the situation. Either way it doesn't really matter, having it would make things a little easier, not having it, doesn't really change much so.
       
Post is unread #27 Dec 17, 2007, 8:28 pm   Last edited Dec 17, 2007, 8:29 pm by Kayle
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Kayle
Off the Edge of the Map
GroupAdministrators
Posts1,195
JoinedMar 21, 2006

Metsuro: Why do you continue to pick at what I posted (which does contribute something to the topic, whether you see it or not) which does nothing but take away from the topic?

But since you seem to feel it doesn't have a point, I'll explain. My personal experience is the basis for my opinion that there's no point to adding in the fields. Because I found that by starting over, I learned from past mistakes and wrote better code.

Please, explain for me how that doesn't pertain to the conversation? Or did I just use words that were too big for you and you got offended and decided to attack me?

David: I wasn't slinging insults at you. I merely took a jab at your own jab. That you call that an insult, you should probably check the dictionary and see exactly what the word means. I read your reasons, and stated my own. And then provided the basis for my beliefs. Which Metsuro proceeded to place words in my mouth and attempt to twist my words into a favorable view for his side of the argument.

But As you say, Samson has his reasons. So there's no point in arguing it any further.
       
Post is unread #28 Dec 17, 2007, 8:30 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Samson
Black Hand
GroupAdministrators
Posts3,643
JoinedJan 1, 2002

David Haley said:

My point has been made very simply. This is a trivial change. Several people have spoken in favor of it. I don't see why there is opposition to it. But I also don't care enough to fight for it. Clearly Samson has his reasons (be they as they are) for being against it, and Kayle... well, basically, Samson has his reasons and that's what matters in the end of the day.


Trivial or otherwise, the reasons given for wanting it don't work. Whether the fixes get marked as being in 1.6, 1.7, or 1.8 is entirely meaningless by itself. You'd need to know which date your particular package was from for this to help. If you're applying fixes over a series of days, you'll need to remember where you left off last. If your copy is outdated, marked posts won't change that. I could waste days adding the information, but why? What gain is there? It's utterly redundant to say "this fix is included in Smaug FUSS 1.8" when it's obvious as hell that's what's been done.
       
Post is unread #29 Dec 17, 2007, 8:32 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

David Haley
Sorcerer
GroupMembers
Posts903
JoinedJan 29, 2007

I find it absolutely amazing, and an interesting but unfortunate social commentary, that so much antagonism is building up over such a small issue...


Samson: I beg to differ; I described why I feel it would be helpful and I do not believe your response addresses my point. I'm not sure it's worth discussing further if you're not going to change your mind, though: you clearly seem to really, really not like the idea (why is beyond me as it would involve basically no change for you) and I'm not sure there's much anybody can do to change that.
       
Post is unread #30 Dec 17, 2007, 8:34 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Metsuro
Apprentice
GroupMembers
Posts68
JoinedSep 2, 2006

The fact you've insulted my intelligence twice perhaps? Your saying by going back and doing it all over helped you learn to do things better. So... why would you say it if not to imply you think others should do the same as you did, and redo things to learn? I mean your opinion is that we don't need this feature so that people can go over it again, and relearn, or to simply go over it in the first place to at least learn more about the code. Correct?
       
Post is unread #31 Dec 17, 2007, 8:43 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Kayle
Off the Edge of the Map
GroupAdministrators
Posts1,195
JoinedMar 21, 2006

Hard to insult something inexistent. I'm done here. There's no point in continuing to argue this, and it's only serving to aggravate me.


Wait.. Does that make it three times?
       
Post is unread #32 Dec 17, 2007, 8:50 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

David Haley
Sorcerer
GroupMembers
Posts903
JoinedJan 29, 2007

Kayle said:

Hard to insult something inexistent.

Please tell me you didn't just say that.

:rolleyes:

Sigh.
       
Post is unread #33 Dec 17, 2007, 8:52 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Samson
Black Hand
GroupAdministrators
Posts3,643
JoinedJan 1, 2002

DavidHaley said:

I find it absolutely amazing, and an interesting but unfortunate social commentary, that so much antagonism is building up over such a small issue...

Samson: I beg to differ; I described why I feel it would be helpful and I do not believe your response addresses my point. I'm not sure it's worth discussing further if you're not going to change your mind, though: you clearly seem to really, really not like the idea (why is beyond me as it would involve basically no change for you) and I'm not sure there's much anybody can do to change that.


David, I think your desire is different from what Conner and Metsuro want. What you appear to have asked for is more of a detailed bug tracker module. That's not something that can be cranked out in 3 hours time. That will take much longer to properly develop. I *AM* slowly - and I stress slowly - working on such a thing. Nobody should expect this to get done in any reasonable amount of time. It should hopefully address some of the issues with being able to "trace" a bugfix, though honestly, you haven't explained very well what you meant by that.

This is all so incredibly simple. When a fix is posted, it's been applied to whatever the current version of each FUSS package is. When 1.4aFUSS got retired for 1.6, all fixes forward from there were in 1.6. When 1.6 was retired for 1.7, the same thing. All fixes forward went into 1.7. Now that 1.8 is here, again, same thing. All fixes forward were only applied to 1.8. There is no retroactive fixing, only one active version is maintained at a time. For a post to be tagged as "Fixed in 1.8" would just add an extra bit of info that's not necessary. People who started off with a non-FUSS base are going to need to apply fixes regardless of what version they first appeared in. Conner is a good example of this. So is Gatewaysysop.

You also mentioned preservation of history. This isn't an archive site. Part of the problem I see in the MUD community these days is a pathological need to keep things that are 15 years old lying around in some crusty old ftp site somewhere just because it once existed. These things are not like books. They don't function the same when you drag them out of mothballs in 2007 when the code was last touched in 1993. Stagnation in software development is death. Part of the focus in having merged the two sites together was to expand beyond just fixing bugs and to modernize. That's hard to do when everyone insists on staying in the past.

The only reason I tag the AFKMud fixes with a version number is because those DON'T release immediately upon posting a fix. It's developed in a more traditional manner with a more traditional approach to releases.
       
Post is unread #34 Dec 17, 2007, 8:58 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

David Haley
Sorcerer
GroupMembers
Posts903
JoinedJan 29, 2007

Samson said:

David, I think your desire is different from what Conner and Metsuro want. What you appear to have asked for is more of a detailed bug tracker module.

No, not really. I just want a mention on each bug report of which version the fix relates to, preferably in the subject line. For instance, instead of:

"[Bug] Chess games don't clean up properly when one player quits"

you would have:

"[Bug] Chess games don't clean up properly when one player quits (>=1.8)"

It would be basically what you already do from now on except you type seven more characters.

Samson said:

For a post to be tagged as "Fixed in 1.8" would just add an extra bit of info that's not necessary.

Perhaps not necessary, yes, but useful, as I and others have suggested. And again, it is at the cost of seven characters. Clearly you wouldn't find it useful for yourself, but I believe four people now have said they'd like it... I'm just not sure why you object to the seven characters so much. And no, I'm not trying to be demeaning or anything, I just really am a little mystified.

Samson said:

You also mentioned preservation of history. This isn't an archive site. Part of the problem I see in the MUD community these days is a pathological need to keep things that are 15 years old lying around in some crusty old ftp site somewhere just because it once existed.

I don't buy your argument. You already keep a record of bug fixes. It costs seven characters to add the version tag. It's not as if I'm suggesting the creation of some massive Bug Encyclopedia with a detailed entry for each report along with an opinion commentary of the historical context of the time... :wink: All I mean by trace is that when you look at bug reports, you don't have to fishing back and forth between the upload page (which as I pointed out isn't necessarily reliable anyhow) looking for dates. It would suffice to look at the subject tag.
       
Post is unread #35 Dec 17, 2007, 9:37 pm   Last edited Dec 17, 2007, 9:39 pm by Samson
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Samson
Black Hand
GroupAdministrators
Posts3,643
JoinedJan 1, 2002

SmaugFUSS 1.8 Added: Jul 8, 2007 Updated: Nov 11, 2007
SmaugFUSS 1.7 Added: Sep 17, 2006 Updated: Nov 27, 2007

This has been the basic point of my argument all along. On July 8, 1.7 was retired. No further work was done except to replace a corrupted copy on November 27. All bugfixes posted to SmaugFUSS are therefore targeted at 1.8.

The only reason the post dates are not reliable is due to the October disk crash. The file submission dates are valid though.

I don't buy your argument. ...


I wasn't selling one either. Since you've chosen to bend the meaning of what I was getting at and leave out the entire second half of it, I'm not going to bother with a response to that.

[BTW: One might note, hostility and insults aside, nobody got disciplined or banned - people quick to judge should keep that in mind]
       
Post is unread #36 Dec 17, 2007, 10:38 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

David Haley
Sorcerer
GroupMembers
Posts903
JoinedJan 29, 2007

Samson said:

On July 8, 1.7 was retired. No further work was done except to replace a corrupted copy on November 27.

But you see, that is the whole point: that Nov 27 date is now no longer representative. It doesn't matter that FUSS 1.8 was added July 8th: how is somebody supposed to know that the Nov 27 upload was to fix a corrupted file, and didn't actually add anything at all? Maybe there was a bug so critical in 1.7 that a bug fix was applied to that distribution? (Isn't this date problem stunningly obvious?)

Making the trivial change to subject tags would fix this. I still don't see what terrible harm and moral prejudice it would cause to add seven characters to subject tags... but, :shrug:

Samson said:

I wasn't selling one either. Since you've chosen to bend the meaning of what I was getting at and leave out the entire second half of it, I'm not going to bother with a response to that.

I fail to see how what I said was hostile in any way, let alone an attempt to bend your meaning. Calm down, dude. In any case, I was replying to your whole paragraph and didn't feel the need to clutter the posts. I also didn't feel the second half was terribly relevant to what I had to say.

Samson said:

[BTW: One might note, hostility and insults aside, nobody got disciplined or banned - people quick to judge should keep that in mind]

Mm-mm, I definitely noticed. I just hope that people saying that others have no intelligence isn't going to become a regular occurrence on this forum...
       
Post is unread #37 Dec 17, 2007, 11:50 pm
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Conner
Sorcerer
GroupMembers
Posts870
JoinedMay 8, 2005

<sarcasm>Hostility and insults not aside, I fully retract my request, it's clear that the addition would disappoint Kayle and it's certainly much easier, and far more beneficial, to tell my player base that my mud will be going off the radar entirely for a month or two every year or so when a new version of SmaugFUSS comes out so that I can simply replace my MUD entirely and redo all the existing code changes than to risk Kayle's ire over asking Samson to add a note to posted bug fixes (as they're posted) declaring to which version they apply..</sarcasm> ok, sarcasm aside..

Wow, Samson, I understand your position and it really was a trivial thing. Someone suggested it and I seconded that it sounded like a good idea, but it's definitely not worth all this debate/drama/whatever..

<the rest of my post deleted because it's just not worth stirring things up even more over the craziness I'm seeing here... maybe it'll look better later>
       
Post is unread #38 Dec 18, 2007, 3:24 am
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Remcon
Geomancer
GroupAdministrators
Posts1,873
JoinedJul 26, 2005

I long ago suggested this and got told why its not added and it is reasonable on why its not done.
SmaugFUSS 1.7 got updated alot and it was simple enough to understand that any official bug post made after the date I downloaded it would need to be added manually to my copy. If he had put something along the lines of Fixed in 1.7 or something and I went along time without checking the site it would have posed as nothing more then to try and mislead me lol. If the files were done like most, uploaded and never modified until the next release with a different version number then he could add in that it was fixed in 1.7. Once he post an official fix and updates the package for the current release of the base it is safe to assume the fix is in it now for the download meaning anyone downloading a copy always has an up to date copy of the base and minimum bugs to fix. There are pros and cons to each and every side of this.

It is a shame to see something as simple as all of this get turned into some reason to toss around insults.
       
Post is unread #39 Dec 18, 2007, 6:23 am
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Samson
Black Hand
GroupAdministrators
Posts3,643
JoinedJan 1, 2002

DavidHaley said:

Samson said:

I wasn't selling one either. Since you've chosen to bend the meaning of what I was getting at and leave out the entire second half of it, I'm not going to bother with a response to that.

I fail to see how what I said was hostile in any way, let alone an attempt to bend your meaning. Calm down, dude. In any case, I was replying to your whole paragraph and didn't feel the need to clutter the posts. I also didn't feel the second half was terribly relevant to what I had to say.


Quit telling people to calm down after you've deliberately twisted the hell out of what they've said to the point where nobody can tell what's being discussed. I really fail to see how you don't get the fact that doing that is extremely irritating and leads directly to this kind of hostility when I or someone else has to come back and repeat themselves all over again.

Thank God at least Kayle and Remcon understand where I'm coming from. I'm hoping they're not the only two people who do, because I doubt I'd be able to contain myself if I had to explain the logic behind it all over again.
       
Post is unread #40 Dec 18, 2007, 11:20 am
Go to the top of the page
Go to the bottom of the page

Quixadhal
Conjurer
GroupMembers
Posts398
JoinedMar 8, 2005

Good grief!

I apologize for starting this mess!

I didn't actually realize that Samson didn't post bugfixes here until there were not only solutions ready, but that they were, in fact, merged into the next revision of the code bases. I assumed the bug fixes were posted and then edited as their status changed.

Please allow this poor thread to die before it burns a hole in the server's hard drive platter.

On the flip side, it's good to see that everyone is alive out there! :)
       
Pages:<< prev 1, 2, 3 next >>