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» SmaugMuds.org » General » General Discussions » Eldhamud Codebase Package Dow...
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Eldhamud Codebase Package Download on this server.
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Post is unread #1 Jan 25, 2008, 3:43 am
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eldhamud
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Sorry for the cross post, but it is also relevant on this site. I will cut and paste to save time and energy.
I didn't want to address this in the public, but i have tried to contact a Mod of this site by email and i have not had a response, so p post here now in hopes of getting a response. As a side note any chance of a contact us link with an address that gets checked fairly often so we know who to get in contact with when an issue arises.

I recently needed to download a copy of my old code release to use in some area conversions. I was horrified to find that this was not the package as i had released it. Added to it was imc and sha256 passwords. I find it highly unethical that someone would make changes to by codebase and then pass it off as if it was mine and not even inform me of those additions.

Personally i don't care for who what how and why, but i would like to have the correct download package restored, as released, which is the one available on mudmagic. I do not mind if the other one stays as long as its given a name change to reflect that it is not the release as made my myself.

Thanks,

Robert Powell. AKA, Tommi of Eldhamud.
       
Post is unread #2 Jan 25, 2008, 5:49 am
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Zeno
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I'm a bit confused. Why do you find it unethical? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think those changes have code comments saying you made them. You also released the codebase to the public, which pretty much lets anyone do what they want to the source (provided it follows the license).
       
Post is unread #3 Jan 25, 2008, 6:17 am
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Samson
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First off - you have not been "ignored". If you'd paid attention to a couple of the other threads recently you'd know I've been in transition to a new motherboard and CPU and have only just reinstalled Thunderbird. Your email was received, but I haven't had time to respond to it, let alone act on it. Considering you only just sent the email yesterday you shouldn't be expecting immediate results. Some of us actually work for a living and don't really care to deal with our PCs full time once we get home. I'm sure you understand.

Second: I don't know who installed the imc and sha256 code, nor do I remember where I obtained the eldhamud codebase package and uploaded it here and at MudBytes, but it will get dealt with in time. See above for why it's not been addressed as an emergency priority issue.
       
Post is unread #4 Jan 25, 2008, 2:36 pm
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tphegley
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eldhamud said:

Sorry for the cross post, but it is also relevant on this site. I will cut and paste to save time and energy.
I didn't want to address this in the public, but i have tried to contact a Mod of this site by email and i have not had a response, so p post here now in hopes of getting a response. As a side note any chance of a contact us link with an address that gets checked fairly often so we know who to get in contact with when an issue arises.

I recently needed to download a copy of my old code release to use in some area conversions. I was horrified to find that this was not the package as i had released it. Added to it was imc and sha256 passwords. I find it highly unethical that someone would make changes to by codebase and then pass it off as if it was mine and not even inform me of those additions.

Personally i don't care for who what how and why, but i would like to have the correct download package restored, as released, which is the one available on mudmagic. I do not mind if the other one stays as long as its given a name change to reflect that it is not the release as made my myself.

Thanks,

Robert Powell. AKA, Tommi of Eldhamud.


I'm sure Samson will just remove the eldamud and rename it or something of the like. If I were you I'd just go ahead and upload your version of it so we know that you uploaded it. Same with mudbytes.com site.
       
Post is unread #5 Jan 25, 2008, 2:54 pm
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eldhamud
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Considering you only just sent the email yesterday


Check the date stamp again, it was sent on the 23rd. Maybe the new computer messed that up also. LOL.


Second: I don't know who installed the imc and sha256 code, nor do I remember where I obtained the eldhamud codebase package and uploaded it here and at MudBytes, but it will get dealt with in time. See above for why it's not been addressed as an emergency priority issue.


Yeah i am not concerned with who added that code into the package, anyone could speculate such things and honestly it would be pointless to start pointing fingers. The only thing that does tho concern me is that, this is not the package as released by me, and as such is not my work.
       
Post is unread #6 Jan 25, 2008, 8:56 pm
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Samson
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eldhamud said:

Check the date stamp again, it was sent on the 23rd. Maybe the new computer messed that up also. LOL.


That's not a very productive way to get what you want done any faster.
       
Post is unread #7 Jan 26, 2008, 3:59 am
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eldhamud
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That's not a very productive way to get what you want done any faster.


What is your problem Samson, i have been nothing but civil with you and you talk down to me like i'm your servant, you get all defensive when no one is accusing you of anything and you lie about when the date the email was posted, and when corrected about the date it was sent you get all uppity.

Dude you need to chill out cause your heading for a heart attack with the stress you live by.

As for what i want done, i would prefer that you just delete the package, cause i would hate to have to deal with your insecurities any further. I'm sure you can find the 20 seconds needed to do that in your busy schedule. I will even be nice, i will give you 14 days to comply with removing the package from smaugmuds.org and mudbytes servers. And while im at it, i revoke the license from you, smaugmuds and mudbytes to use, distribute or anything else to do with the eldhamud codebase.

       
Post is unread #8 Jan 26, 2008, 4:14 am
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Zeno
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eldhamud, coming out of nowhere and claiming a public source that you willing released should be taken down because a few changes were made by someone else other than you and calling it unethical... I don't see that as "civil."

I asked how you consider that unethical, and you haven't said a word.
       
Post is unread #9 Jan 26, 2008, 5:33 am
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Remcon
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Personally, I would think that it's nicer to give more then 1 day (going by the date Samson said he received the email) or 2 days (going by the date you said you sent the email) before trying to bring it to the public when it could have been discussed in a more private manor had it been given a few more days to get handled.


What is your problem Samson, i have been nothing but civil with you and you talk down to me like i'm your servant, you get all defensive when no one is accusing you of anything and you lie about when the date the email was posted, and when corrected about the date it was sent you get all uppity.

Granted I'm not always right, but I haven't seen where he talked down to you to bad. Although you said LOL you did more or less call him a liar about the date he received it. Although he did say you just "sent" it on the 24th he could have meant thats the date he received it and depending on the time you tried to send it and the time it actually got sent it could have easily been sent on the 24th instead of the 23rd.

Anyway it goes all this could have been handled in a better and maturer fashion, but hopefully it will all get worked out in a better fashion sometime :)
       
Post is unread #10 Jan 26, 2008, 8:34 am
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David Haley
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Zeno said:

eldhamud, coming out of nowhere and claiming a public source that you willing released should be taken down because a few changes were made by someone else other than you and calling it unethical... I don't see that as "civil."

Err, it's his code, ne? And somebody did something to it that he doesn't like. Would it not bother you if somebody posted code, calling it yours, when they had changed it? If not, it doesn't really matter; it's within his rights to ask for it to be taken down...
Remcon said:

Although you said LOL you did more or less call him a liar about the date he received it

He said that maybe it was the new computer installation that called the delay... that doesn't sound like calling anybody a liar to me...

Anyhow it's unfortunate this happened as it is, hopefully people will have cooled down a bit by the time "round 2" of posting starts. :smile:
       
Post is unread #11 Jan 26, 2008, 8:40 am
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Remcon
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Depends on how you read it there (as does anything that is typed)

and you lie about when the date the email was posted

This is the part where he is obviously calling Samson a lier though which is in the line I had quoted when I replied. In the original post where he made the computer comment, the part about the computer was obviously a sarcastic remark (at least to me).


Anyhow it's unfortunate this happened as it is, hopefully people will have cooled down a bit by the time "round 2" of posting starts. :smile:

Agreed :)
       
Post is unread #12 Jan 26, 2008, 11:29 am   Last edited Jan 26, 2008, 11:30 am by Samson
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Samson
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Wow. So politely telling someone that their previous statement wasn't the most productive way to get what they want makes me the bad guy? I'm continually amazed at how this seems to happen with so many people these days. Jesus Christ, take a chill, grow a thicker skin, and get on with your own life before you break out into a rant about how I should de-stress and avoid that pending heart attack before its too late to cave to your demands.

Eldhamud, your code was deleted last night. But your continued hostile attitude only accomplished one thing. I won't be letting you send another package back up here. It's not welcome here, and I have half a mind to ban you as well, but that ball is in your court right now.

And David, you have no right to claim the high ground after your little show last night with you and Cratylus, so don't pretend you're looking to keep things civil either.
       
Post is unread #13 Jan 26, 2008, 11:30 am
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Kayle
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All this over a chat protocol and increased encryption security? Wow..
       
Post is unread #14 Jan 26, 2008, 11:47 am
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Samson
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No, Kayle, go read the imc logs for last night and you'll get a pretty clear picture of who instigated what.
       
Post is unread #15 Jan 26, 2008, 12:29 pm
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Kayle
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I was just referring to the codebase, one of his problems with it was IMC and the other was adding SHA-256 encryption.
       
Post is unread #16 Jan 26, 2008, 12:35 pm
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Samson
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Ah. I thought you were referring to my comment about David.

I was already planning to let him replace the package with one of his own choosing. It's his code. But since he chose to get nasty and rude about it, I'm not going to accept it here at all now. He's got only himself to blame since all I did was point out how unproductive it was to fling accusations.
       
Post is unread #17 Jan 26, 2008, 12:53 pm
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Kayle
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Oh well. This is another example of why thinking before you speak is a good practice to get into.
       
Post is unread #18 Jan 26, 2008, 2:17 pm   Last edited Jan 26, 2008, 2:19 pm by eldhamud
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eldhamud
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ZENO: asked how you consider that unethical, and you haven't said a word.

Firstly i ignored you, i have no intention to get into a protracted argument over this with you or anyone else for that matter. As for the ethics, yes it is highly unethical to change to someones code and then try to pass it off as unchanged.


REMCON: This is the part where he is obviously calling Samson a lier
SAMSON: Considering you only just sent the email yesterday


Well either A. He was lieing. or B. His computer messed up the date stamps. And no that was not sarcasm, i was trying to make light of the situation. And while you might find dealing with samson easy, i personally dont, i find its like walking on egg shells the whole time waiting for him to explode over some harmless statement. He openly admits he has no sence of humor and well he also takes things to heart and thinks that everyone is out to get him. He also had no need to get defensive and uppity about all this. I noticed something that i didnt like and asked for it to be corrected. Only to be slammed by samson and others for doing so. I can say that if i had done this to the AFKmud code i would not have been asked i would have received a DMCA notice.


KAYLE: All this over a chat protocol and increased encryption security? Wow..

There are some pretty good reasons why i removed IMC from my code, none of which i wish to discuss right here. But the point is not the protocols but the fact that someone would add that back in and call it mine. I don't care if someone wants to make a derivative and i would have been happy with it being called eldhamud+imc.zip, read the first post because i said this package can stay if you like just change the name so it is obvious it is not the package i released.


SAMSON: Eldhamud, your code was deleted last night. But your continued hostile attitude only accomplished one thing. I won't be letting you send another package back up here. It's not welcome here, and I have half a mind to ban you as well, but that ball is in your court right now.

Thank you for following my wishes on this matter, you may close this thread if you see fit, i have nothing more to add to it.
       
Post is unread #19 Jan 26, 2008, 2:44 pm   Last edited Jan 26, 2008, 2:44 pm by Samson
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Samson
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eldhamud said:

And while you might find dealing with samson easy, i personally dont, i find its like walking on egg shells the whole time waiting for him to explode over some harmless statement. He openly admits he has no sence of humor and well he also takes things to heart and thinks that everyone is out to get him. He also had no need to get defensive and uppity about all this. I noticed something that i didnt like and asked for it to be corrected. Only to be slammed by samson and others for doing so. I can say that if i had done this to the AFKmud code i would not have been asked i would have received a DMCA notice.


There's a reason you find dealing with me difficult. You've crossed me before on issues of copyright, license compliance, and in general have openly stated to other people that you are in fact conducting a vendetta against me for having called you out on it. Forgive me if I take a dim view of folks who do that. Remcon finds me easy to deal with because, well, he hasn't given me cause to be angry with him. He and I have had some bitter disagreements before, yet here we are.

Maybe you've missed the sarcastic nature of it, but I added the "Humorless" portion of my member title as a joke. Someone, somewhere, said I was a humorless xenophobe and I figured I'd poke some fun at it. That you since took it seriously tells me it's actually you who lacks the sense of humor. I suppose you seriously believe I consider myself the actual Satan too?

You asked for something to be corrected via email. Nobody disputes that. However, coming here and calling me a liar because the email is dated as the 24th instead of the 23rd because you actually sent it a day later than you thought you did places the blame on you for approaching the issue in a hostile manner. Not on me for reacting to it. The world does not revolve around you and what you want, when you want it. Two days is entirely within reasonable expectations for something to be done about it.

You are also in no position to assume how I handle situations involving the AFKMud codebase. While I have in fact been driven into delivering at least 2 DMCA notifications for takedown, that came AFTER the "cease and desist" emails sent prior to that. There have also been several other instances where asking to remove the code from distribution on unauthorized servers has simply been done as asked without needing to go legal on people. So you assume much there about how people conduct their business in private. Which is where this sort of thing ultimately belongs.
       
Post is unread #20 Jan 26, 2008, 2:47 pm
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Kayle
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We don't "close threads" we leave them alone and open so anyone can continue to point out any stupidity or idiocy they see.

As for your responses, You ignored Zeno because you didn't feel like owning up to the fact that calling it unethical was wrong.

I'd like to see some proof that you did indeed send the email on the 23rd. Because all we have to go on is the date stamp that the mail server on Arthmoor places on the emails as they're received.

You have no right to come here and openly attack anyone simply because you didn't see action within a day of sending an email. As has been said already, some of us have real lives. I am a full-time college student, Samson works a full time job, AND runs a mud hosting service on the side, not to mention he is a major contributor to the mud community, specifically the Smaug community. He runs this site, he co-runs MudBytes, He heads up the QSFP project, he's also a major contributor to the Sandbox personal blog software. So sorry that he didn't have time to immediately address your concerns since his Motherboard had died and he couldn't actually check his email.

Oh but wait, You don't care about any of that, you're more concerned with yourself, and what someone "unethically" did to something you released. If you want to talk about unethical, why don't we discuss how you used to (quite possibly still) violate the Smaug/Merc/Diku licenses. By the way, I did read the first post, and every subsequent post, and at no time did I see Samson get defensive. Actually quite the contrary, right up until you demanded that it be taken down and revoked the right of this site and MudBytes to host your codebase, he'd been quite civil as far as I saw.

And while he might have followed your wishes, you also lost your right to upload your codebase here. I won't say whether you lost the right on MudBytes as well or not, because I don't know. But it was quite clear you won't be allowed to upload it here. And based on your continued hostile attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if further action will be needed.
       
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